Comments on: Pragmatism – No Excuse! http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/ Avoiding Hackneyed...Making Sense Sat, 07 Apr 2012 15:48:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: DPalmer http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-3923 DPalmer Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:21:44 +0000 http://nowthinkaboutit.com/?p=516#comment-3923 Hi, Ennis I searched online for bible and pragmatism and came across this. I understand your frustration with people using smug over-analysis of methods, ignoring the need to communicate wisely and effectively and hiding behind "pragmatism" worship as an excuse to not evaluate our performance (sometimes the messenger & delivery IS the problem, not message - sometimes it's a compromised message that is the problem. To ignore that God condones pragmatism sometimes is an extreme non-biblical position (God has often adjusted his approach to various different ages, the apostles adjusted their message depending on the audience, Paul condoned adjusting his lifestyle in different ways pragmatically so as not to distract from the most important goal - and yes, Mark, Paul did say in 1st Cor.9:19-23, "that I may win more... that I might win those who are...(2x), and "that I may BY ALL MEANS save some" - yes, Paul knows God is the ultimate saver & life-giver, but he knew he had enough of a role to say that "I" may win. So, while pragmatism is not unbiblical, neither should it be the FOUNDATION of all we do - but base our goals & values (these are more clear) and approaches (where we can - not all is clear) on Scripture, and use our new "mind of Christ" and new heart to aid in decisions. Theologically, I don't see that we are trapped with an "unable to do good or decide well" mind and heart - that's an unregenerate heart. He's given us a NEW one, a heart after him, and we have "the mind of Christ" as we are being transformed. In Acts 6, when a problem in the church arose with neglected widows and disputes - they didn't find a "biblical blueprint" to know what to do, but they made a very pragmatic decision to appoint 7 men to oversee that so they could focus better on their calling and priorities. Good Spirit-guided men, good solution to a problem, moving on. The Lord is still building his church, and giving wisdom by His spirit to make practical decisions as we face new issues. Where there is not specific blueprint, we need to use our God-given & sanctified minds and relationship with the living Head of the church to choose a solution. Here's a slightly more balanced view of pragmatism than both your posts: http://www.matthiasmedia.com.au/briefing/library/2420/ Hi, Ennis
I searched online for bible and pragmatism and came across this. I understand your frustration with people using smug over-analysis of methods, ignoring the need to communicate wisely and effectively and hiding behind “pragmatism” worship as an excuse to not evaluate our performance (sometimes the messenger & delivery IS the problem, not message – sometimes it’s a compromised message that is the problem. To ignore that God condones pragmatism sometimes is an extreme non-biblical position (God has often adjusted his approach to various different ages, the apostles adjusted their message depending on the audience, Paul condoned adjusting his lifestyle in different ways pragmatically so as not to distract from the most important goal – and yes, Mark, Paul did say in 1st Cor.9:19-23, “that I may win more… that I might win those who are…(2x), and “that I may BY ALL MEANS save some” – yes, Paul knows God is the ultimate saver & life-giver, but he knew he had enough of a role to say that “I” may win. So, while pragmatism is not unbiblical, neither should it be the FOUNDATION of all we do – but base our goals & values (these are more clear) and approaches (where we can – not all is clear) on Scripture, and use our new “mind of Christ” and new heart to aid in decisions. Theologically, I don’t see that we are trapped with an “unable to do good or decide well” mind and heart – that’s an unregenerate heart. He’s given us a NEW one, a heart after him, and we have “the mind of Christ” as we are being transformed. In Acts 6, when a problem in the church arose with neglected widows and disputes – they didn’t find a “biblical blueprint” to know what to do, but they made a very pragmatic decision to appoint 7 men to oversee that so they could focus better on their calling and priorities. Good Spirit-guided men, good solution to a problem, moving on. The Lord is still building his church, and giving wisdom by His spirit to make practical decisions as we face new issues. Where there is not specific blueprint, we need to use our God-given & sanctified minds and relationship with the living Head of the church to choose a solution. Here’s a slightly more balanced view of pragmatism than both your posts: http://www.matthiasmedia.com.au/briefing/library/2420/
DPalmer´s last [type] ..Hi all! Be Free!

]]> By: EnnisP http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-2058 EnnisP Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:33:30 +0000 http://nowthinkaboutit.com/?p=516#comment-2058 Hey Don, Thanks for the visit and the comment. All the best. Hey Don,
Thanks for the visit and the comment. All the best.

]]> By: Don http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-2057 Don Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:53:10 +0000 http://nowthinkaboutit.com/?p=516#comment-2057 Ennis, Excellent blog! Don Mingo Ennis,

Excellent blog!

Don Mingo

]]> By: Mark Gomez http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-2055 Mark Gomez Sun, 27 Sep 2009 01:10:13 +0000 http://nowthinkaboutit.com/?p=516#comment-2055 I don't have a problem, per se, with large numbers of people getting saved. However, Christ did teach that the way is narrow and few there be that find it. John taught that the world would hate us, not embrace us. So when I see people boasting of massive numbers of converts, I'm a little suspicious since our message is supposed to be difficult and "foolishness" to the world. As far as rejoicing when people were saved, I'm glad for genuine converts, although when people water down the gospel to make it more palatable, I doubt the conversions. As far as referencing Jeremiah, I'm not so much using it as a methodological example, just pointing out the fact that with God it's not all about results. Wasn't then, isn't now. Some things don't change across dispensations (some things do). I'm sure you and I have wildly different views of election and that has contributed to your erroneous thinking here. I think it is our responsibility to preach the gospel that Christ and the apostles gave us, to earnestly contend for it, not to water it down and make it as palatable as possible. The gospel Christ preached was difficult and He said it would be the same for us. I'll leave you with Paul's words on the gospel: "but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles. . ." Sounds like he needed a better method. I don’t have a problem, per se, with large numbers of people getting saved. However, Christ did teach that the way is narrow and few there be that find it. John taught that the world would hate us, not embrace us. So when I see people boasting of massive numbers of converts, I’m a little suspicious since our message is supposed to be difficult and “foolishness” to the world. As far as rejoicing when people were saved, I’m glad for genuine converts, although when people water down the gospel to make it more palatable, I doubt the conversions.

As far as referencing Jeremiah, I’m not so much using it as a methodological example, just pointing out the fact that with God it’s not all about results. Wasn’t then, isn’t now. Some things don’t change across dispensations (some things do). I’m sure you and I have wildly different views of election and that has contributed to your erroneous thinking here. I think it is our responsibility to preach the gospel that Christ and the apostles gave us, to earnestly contend for it, not to water it down and make it as palatable as possible. The gospel Christ preached was difficult and He said it would be the same for us.

I’ll leave you with Paul’s words on the gospel: “but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles. . .” Sounds like he needed a better method.

]]> By: EnnisP http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/09/pragmatism-no-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-2054 EnnisP Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:24:26 +0000 http://nowthinkaboutit.com/?p=516#comment-2054 Do you have a problem if large numbers of people get saved? If people are reached using methods which you believe to be "non-biblical" do you still rejoice for those who get saved? I was surprised at your reference to the OT and the use of Jeremiah as an appropriate model of ministry for this era. I'm sure you have your reasons but it doesn't seem to fit with previous discussions we have had. Just an observation not a criticism. Do you have a problem if large numbers of people get saved? If people are reached using methods which you believe to be “non-biblical” do you still rejoice for those who get saved?

I was surprised at your reference to the OT and the use of Jeremiah as an appropriate model of ministry for this era. I’m sure you have your reasons but it doesn’t seem to fit with previous discussions we have had. Just an observation not a criticism.

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